Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Answers To The Memorial Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John, No. 3 Bis.
nothing else than a disgraceful forgery . After this a motion was proposed by Bro . W . Officer , acting Junior Grand Warden , and unanimously agreed to , that this memorial from the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , 'No . 3 bis , should lie upon the table until next quarterly communication so as to afford time for examination into its contents . Since then I have received from . Bro . John
Laurie , Grand Clerk , a "certified true copy" of this memorial as also at same time a letter from him , dated 8 fch December , 1870 , requiring me to lodge with him , within fourteen days my reasons for making the statements I made regarding it at the quarterly communication on 7 th November . 1870 . Accordingly in answer to this request I respectfully
beg leave to present the following remarks : — Firstly . I beg leave to observe that although this document was presented to Grand Lodge upon the 7 th day of November , 1870 , in name of the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , No . 3 bis , yet said document was not read in , or adopted hy , the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , No . 3 bisuntil the 15 th November 1870 or eight days after
, , , its presentation ! At which meeting I was present , and as a member of No . 3 bis , condemned it , and likewise reiterated my opinion that the " JIalcolm Charter" they were founding upon was a forgery . Secondly . Said document or memorial is , in my opinion a very imperfect one , and contains many mistakes , as I shall proceed to show , consequently if such
be the case ifc would be anything but complimentary to any person to have his name attached to it . In proof of which I proceed to take up the " first" head of this memorial which states that " the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , ( No . 3 bis ) had by Charter , dated 1157 , conferred upon them and their predecessors the whole rights and privileges of Masonry within tho City of Glasgow , & c . " Now the first question here evidently is , — Is this pretended "Charter , dated 1157 , " genuine ? To which I answer , No ! Further , before going into the proof of its
non-genumeness , allow me to remind the Eight Worship , ful Office-bearers of the Grand Lodge , that when this St . John's Lodge , in 1849-50 , wished to join tho Grand Lodge of Scotland , they then brought up this same , pretended Charter , and held ifc forth as being granted to them by Malcolm 3 rd , Canmore , King of Soots , in 1057 , but upon examination thereof , the Grand Lodge of Scotland at that time very justly decidedly refused to
acknowledge said document as a Charter of Malcolm the third , or of date 1057 , and gave them their position of No . 3 bis , upon the 1628 Roslin Charter . Now , however , in this case ifc will be observed that the date given is 1157 , which takes 100 years off its pretended age , and brings ifc down to the time of Malcolm IV . However , whether the date given out be 1051 , 1057 , or 1157 , all in
my opinion , are equally false , for , upon examining the document itself we find ifc saying—my true age is much nearer 1857 than any of the foregoing dates , as I now proceed to show . First , the style of the writing , and also of the Latin are quite modern , as also the character of its contents comparatively so ; while in some points ifc reminds me of the
Glasgow Burgh Charter , 1175 , as given in Mo Tire ' s 1736 History of Glasgow . Second , the idea of an Incorporation of Masons in Glasgow receiving a royal charter from either Malcolm 3 rd or 4 th , is absurd and contrary to all reliable Scottish history . Third , even Glasgow itself did nob receive its charter of erection as a Bishop ' s Burgh until the reign of William the Lion , and about A . D . 1175 .
Fourth , in tracing back tho existence of this document as far as possible , I have been unable as yet to discover any evidence of its existence before the year 1806 or nearly sixty-five years ago . Afc this time a Masonic procession was to take place in Glasgow in honour of the
Answers To The Memorial Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John, No. 3 Bis.
laying of the foundation-stone of Nelson ' s monument on Glasgow Green , and afc which procession the members of the Glasgow Freemen Operative St . John ' s Lodge , although not then in connection with the Grand Lodge of Scotland , not only wished to he present but also to take precedence . The Glasgow Sb . Mungo ' s Lodgo , which was then the senior lodge of the Province on the Grand
Lodge roll , however objected to this as per their minutes of that date ( a copy of -which appear afc page 307 , & c , of the " Freemasons' Magazine " for October ISth , 1870 ) , where they rest upon the Laws and Eegulacions of thc . Grand Lodge of Scotland , especially Appendix III ., chap . xii ., as given at page 324 of Alexander Laurie's ' History of Freemasonry , " published in 1804 and resting npos :
, which they refused to acknowledge the St . John ' s Lodge , and call this Malcolm document which was so opportunely brought forward or "discovered" then-ft " pre tended charter , " and in refusing to allow tho St John ' s Lodge to interfere with them they aro backed up by Bro . W . Guthrie , Grand Secretary , and also by Sir John Sfcuarfc , of Allanbank , the Provincial Grand Master , who
says , " On no account can or will I permit any lodge to appear in this procession that does nob hold of the Grand Lodge of Scotland . " Ail this shows how mistaken are the statements in this St . John ' s Memorial , which say " those , privilegey were never called in question , " or , where ifc states bhiv ; the St . John ' s Lodge "were assigned by virtue of
theirposition , precedence in rank over all the daughter Lodges of Scotland . " Eor all that , I am aware they gob in I 80 i ; was that Sir John Stuart asked for , ' five or six ham : some figures of operatives Laving black cloafches to carry my proper ensigns , " and ifc so happened that ths aperi ; ¦ tives having " handsome figures , " and " black oloathe :- ; " ' '
so chosen belonged to St- John ' s Lodge , which was - . ' far a credit to that body , but that might ; have been or . ) y an accident so far , and it was a concession of Sir Job . ;) Sfcuarfc to take them , as he entirely refuses to acknowledge or have any intercourse with tho St . John ' s Lou ,, o as such ; for the Grand Lodgo of Scotland as an hidop .--udent body , and as the head of Speculative Frecnr-scnr ? - in Scotland is r . ofc bound to recognize the pretentions -. " ..
-any operative or other lodge out of its pale , or even within it , any farther than it may rightly consider said protensions to be just and reasonable—the pretensions oi operative Masons are one thing , tho prerogative and Oo-v sfcitufcion of tho Grand Lodge of Scotland another . Further , even tho minutes of the Lodgo St . JOLJ , themselves , prove tho mistake of saying "those privileges were never called in question . " for , in 1833 wi .. - - the foundation-stone of the Jamaica Street Bridge yy
Glasgow was to be laid these so-called privileges of their-n were dis-allowed , however a great agitation W ; LS got i ; :. i and considerable pressure pub upon the Lord Provost * - ;> . v ; i \ Dr . Cleland , Superintendent of Public Works , wiii . - . ' i latter had been imposed upon by the protended IMcciha . Charter , and had even published a so-called translation of it in his "Annals of Glasgow " as per eoj , 2 , nivin "
485 . But whether tho English " translation . " ortyc pseudo " old monkish latin" be the older , I oanjioo ..-.. present affirm ; however , no doubt by appealing to lu . \; precious document , they carried their point , to a certain extent at least , not , as I consider , because of any ja .. t and lawful right they had to interfere with the oroeeec ! ings of tho Grand Lodge of Scotland then ; but " bet- ; :.. - ¦ ¦
local influence backed up at ifc seems to me by falsehood , fraud and imposition mixed with , or working upon ignorance , were for the time triumphant . Then be it observed that all tho occasions mentioned in this iie : no > M , /
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Answers To The Memorial Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John, No. 3 Bis.
nothing else than a disgraceful forgery . After this a motion was proposed by Bro . W . Officer , acting Junior Grand Warden , and unanimously agreed to , that this memorial from the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , 'No . 3 bis , should lie upon the table until next quarterly communication so as to afford time for examination into its contents . Since then I have received from . Bro . John
Laurie , Grand Clerk , a "certified true copy" of this memorial as also at same time a letter from him , dated 8 fch December , 1870 , requiring me to lodge with him , within fourteen days my reasons for making the statements I made regarding it at the quarterly communication on 7 th November . 1870 . Accordingly in answer to this request I respectfully
beg leave to present the following remarks : — Firstly . I beg leave to observe that although this document was presented to Grand Lodge upon the 7 th day of November , 1870 , in name of the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , No . 3 bis , yet said document was not read in , or adopted hy , the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , No . 3 bisuntil the 15 th November 1870 or eight days after
, , , its presentation ! At which meeting I was present , and as a member of No . 3 bis , condemned it , and likewise reiterated my opinion that the " JIalcolm Charter" they were founding upon was a forgery . Secondly . Said document or memorial is , in my opinion a very imperfect one , and contains many mistakes , as I shall proceed to show , consequently if such
be the case ifc would be anything but complimentary to any person to have his name attached to it . In proof of which I proceed to take up the " first" head of this memorial which states that " the Lodge of Glasgow , St . John , ( No . 3 bis ) had by Charter , dated 1157 , conferred upon them and their predecessors the whole rights and privileges of Masonry within tho City of Glasgow , & c . " Now the first question here evidently is , — Is this pretended "Charter , dated 1157 , " genuine ? To which I answer , No ! Further , before going into the proof of its
non-genumeness , allow me to remind the Eight Worship , ful Office-bearers of the Grand Lodge , that when this St . John's Lodge , in 1849-50 , wished to join tho Grand Lodge of Scotland , they then brought up this same , pretended Charter , and held ifc forth as being granted to them by Malcolm 3 rd , Canmore , King of Soots , in 1057 , but upon examination thereof , the Grand Lodge of Scotland at that time very justly decidedly refused to
acknowledge said document as a Charter of Malcolm the third , or of date 1057 , and gave them their position of No . 3 bis , upon the 1628 Roslin Charter . Now , however , in this case ifc will be observed that the date given is 1157 , which takes 100 years off its pretended age , and brings ifc down to the time of Malcolm IV . However , whether the date given out be 1051 , 1057 , or 1157 , all in
my opinion , are equally false , for , upon examining the document itself we find ifc saying—my true age is much nearer 1857 than any of the foregoing dates , as I now proceed to show . First , the style of the writing , and also of the Latin are quite modern , as also the character of its contents comparatively so ; while in some points ifc reminds me of the
Glasgow Burgh Charter , 1175 , as given in Mo Tire ' s 1736 History of Glasgow . Second , the idea of an Incorporation of Masons in Glasgow receiving a royal charter from either Malcolm 3 rd or 4 th , is absurd and contrary to all reliable Scottish history . Third , even Glasgow itself did nob receive its charter of erection as a Bishop ' s Burgh until the reign of William the Lion , and about A . D . 1175 .
Fourth , in tracing back tho existence of this document as far as possible , I have been unable as yet to discover any evidence of its existence before the year 1806 or nearly sixty-five years ago . Afc this time a Masonic procession was to take place in Glasgow in honour of the
Answers To The Memorial Of The Lodge Of Glasgow St. John, No. 3 Bis.
laying of the foundation-stone of Nelson ' s monument on Glasgow Green , and afc which procession the members of the Glasgow Freemen Operative St . John ' s Lodge , although not then in connection with the Grand Lodge of Scotland , not only wished to he present but also to take precedence . The Glasgow Sb . Mungo ' s Lodgo , which was then the senior lodge of the Province on the Grand
Lodge roll , however objected to this as per their minutes of that date ( a copy of -which appear afc page 307 , & c , of the " Freemasons' Magazine " for October ISth , 1870 ) , where they rest upon the Laws and Eegulacions of thc . Grand Lodge of Scotland , especially Appendix III ., chap . xii ., as given at page 324 of Alexander Laurie's ' History of Freemasonry , " published in 1804 and resting npos :
, which they refused to acknowledge the St . John ' s Lodge , and call this Malcolm document which was so opportunely brought forward or "discovered" then-ft " pre tended charter , " and in refusing to allow tho St John ' s Lodge to interfere with them they aro backed up by Bro . W . Guthrie , Grand Secretary , and also by Sir John Sfcuarfc , of Allanbank , the Provincial Grand Master , who
says , " On no account can or will I permit any lodge to appear in this procession that does nob hold of the Grand Lodge of Scotland . " Ail this shows how mistaken are the statements in this St . John ' s Memorial , which say " those , privilegey were never called in question , " or , where ifc states bhiv ; the St . John ' s Lodge "were assigned by virtue of
theirposition , precedence in rank over all the daughter Lodges of Scotland . " Eor all that , I am aware they gob in I 80 i ; was that Sir John Stuart asked for , ' five or six ham : some figures of operatives Laving black cloafches to carry my proper ensigns , " and ifc so happened that ths aperi ; ¦ tives having " handsome figures , " and " black oloathe :- ; " ' '
so chosen belonged to St- John ' s Lodge , which was - . ' far a credit to that body , but that might ; have been or . ) y an accident so far , and it was a concession of Sir Job . ;) Sfcuarfc to take them , as he entirely refuses to acknowledge or have any intercourse with tho St . John ' s Lou ,, o as such ; for the Grand Lodgo of Scotland as an hidop .--udent body , and as the head of Speculative Frecnr-scnr ? - in Scotland is r . ofc bound to recognize the pretentions -. " ..
-any operative or other lodge out of its pale , or even within it , any farther than it may rightly consider said protensions to be just and reasonable—the pretensions oi operative Masons are one thing , tho prerogative and Oo-v sfcitufcion of tho Grand Lodge of Scotland another . Further , even tho minutes of the Lodgo St . JOLJ , themselves , prove tho mistake of saying "those privileges were never called in question . " for , in 1833 wi .. - - the foundation-stone of the Jamaica Street Bridge yy
Glasgow was to be laid these so-called privileges of their-n were dis-allowed , however a great agitation W ; LS got i ; :. i and considerable pressure pub upon the Lord Provost * - ;> . v ; i \ Dr . Cleland , Superintendent of Public Works , wiii . - . ' i latter had been imposed upon by the protended IMcciha . Charter , and had even published a so-called translation of it in his "Annals of Glasgow " as per eoj , 2 , nivin "
485 . But whether tho English " translation . " ortyc pseudo " old monkish latin" be the older , I oanjioo ..-.. present affirm ; however , no doubt by appealing to lu . \; precious document , they carried their point , to a certain extent at least , not , as I consider , because of any ja .. t and lawful right they had to interfere with the oroeeec ! ings of tho Grand Lodge of Scotland then ; but " bet- ; :.. - ¦ ¦
local influence backed up at ifc seems to me by falsehood , fraud and imposition mixed with , or working upon ignorance , were for the time triumphant . Then be it observed that all tho occasions mentioned in this iie : no > M , /