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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • Aug. 29, 1868
  • Page 11
  • BRO. MANNINGHAM'S LETTER AND THE ROYAL ORDER OF SCOTLAND.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Aug. 29, 1868: Page 11

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    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 1
    Article MASONIC CHARITIES. Page 1 of 1
    Article BRO. MANNINGHAM'S LETTER AND THE ROYAL ORDER OF SCOTLAND. Page 1 of 1
    Article ANTIQUITY OF THE THIRD DEGREE. Page 1 of 1
Page 11

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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor ta not responsible for the opinions expressed & j / Correspondents , THE HIGH DEGEEES AND BBO . MANNINGHAM .

TO IHB EDITOK OF THE EKEEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIKROR . Dear Sir aud Brother , —The letter from Bro . Man-• ningham to Bro . Sauer which was transmitted to you by our learned Bro . Dr . Findel , and which you inserted in your last number , is , if genuine , a very important addition to the information we possess in

respect of certain portions of our Masonic Archeology . Though dated in 1757 , and hitherto , I believe unknown to Masonic students , I see no reason to doubt the genuineness of the letter , or why we should not accept the data it affords as regards several moot feints .

1 . If we assume that the letter really emanated from Bro . Manningham , on his authority , which is decisive , we are able to dispose of a recent theory , that the third degree is no earlier than the revival . Bro . Manningham , on the contrary , distinctly , as we ¦ see , carries back the existence of the three degrees to 'the middle of the seventeenth century , and that in

itself presupposes a far earlier existence , I hope some day to put forward the evidences I have been long collecting iu humble confirmation of Bro . Man-¦ ningham ' s decisive statement .

2 . Bro . Manningham has no doubt either apparently of the connexion between the operative and speculative Masons , and his whole argument goes to prove that the traditions , usages , degrees , landmarks of the speculative Order of 1757 were identical with those of the older operative assemblies .

3 . It may be said that Bro . Manningham also decides the controversy of the Eoyal Arch . We must , however , remember that that controversy is , after all , more a matter of words than of any very antagonistic views . It all depends upou what Bro . Manningham means by the Master ' s Degree . If he ,

as I believe , understood the old full third degree , with its first and second parts , then—cadit qucestio . Those who , like myself , uphold the reality of tbe Eoyal Arch , have never contended for more than this , that , though the Eoyal Arch Degree may have to-day a modern name and an elaborate ritualit isand ever

, , has been , substantiall y the same with the second part of the Master ' s Degree . Any other theory would land ns on a shore of inextricable confusion and -hopeless controversy , and would throw the greatest doubt on the whole arrangement of our Masonic

ceremonies . 4 . Bro . Manningham no doubt by his letter ignores the claims of many of the high grades to antiquity , as he seems to mark their early actual beginning in this country by his words of warning protest . I do not wish to-day to reopen the question of the high grades further than to say that Bro . Manningham ' s

declaration in 1757 is fully borne out by all the later evidences we have seen accumulating gradually the last quarter of a century . But , as I think the controversy is productive of very little good to Masonry , and does not tend to promote what we all ought to

Correspondence.

desire , fraternal feelings of toleration and good will among Masons , I leave it here . 5 . Presuming Bro . Manningham ' s letter to be genuine , I have sought to point out what I think we may fairly deduce from it , and what certainly is and has been for some time the conviction derived from careful study of , Tours fraternally , A MASONIC " STUDENT .

Masonic Charities.

MASONIC CHARITIES .

TO THE EDITOK OH THE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIHKOB . Dear Sir and Brother , —May I respectfully ask a P . G . O ., East Lancashire , if I understand his words in your last number rightly ? Does he mean to inform us that the organization of East Lancashire , of which he speaks so highly , has for its end a selection of the

most deserving candidate from whatever province that candidate comes ? If so , perhaps he would kindly impart to us how the East Lancashire brethren arrive at the satisfactory certainty of the most deserving case absolutely in itself . TJp to the present time I had been under the impression that the East

Lancashire organization had succeeded in securing the election of E . Lancashire candidates and E . Lancashire candidates alone , but , I suppose , after the letter of P . G . 0 ., that I am mistaken . Your fraternally , A MEMBER of the C . C . W . Torkshire .

Bro. Manningham's Letter And The Royal Order Of Scotland.

BRO . MANNINGHAM'S LETTER AND THE ROYAL ORDER OF SCOTLAND .

TO THE EDITOE OE THE EREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIEEOE . Dear Sir and Brother , —I consider Bro . E . T . ' s communication relative to Bro . Manningham ' s letter ( which at present is considered of so much importance , aud which is accepted by one o ? the highest authorities in Masonry , Bro . J . Gr . Findel , as genuine )

to be to the point , and just what we want to have . Let us have a fair copy of the original , " without note or comment , " and then we can weig h well its statements . Eecords of the Eoyal Order of Scotlandstill in existence—date several years further back than A . D . 1757 , so its position is not effected by the letter . Tours fraternally , W . J . HUGHAN .

Antiquity Of The Third Degree.

ANTIQUITY OF THE THIRD DEGREE .

TO THE EDITOK OP THE EKEEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIBBOB . ) Dear Sir and Brother , —Bro . Eobert Sanderson has brought forward evidence , not that the third degree did not exist before 1762 , but that a certain lodge or society of Masons in a remote part of Scotland was loosely conducted . Few others with such license

would undertake to prove that W . M . ' s were never installed under the Grand Lodge of England before 1862 , from the loose example of some lodges . Tours fraternally , E . Y .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1868-08-29, Page 11” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 28 March 2023, www.masonicperiodicals.org/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_29081868/page/11/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. Article 1
SKETCHES OF NOTABLE MASONIC WORKS. Article 4
THE BLUE BLANKET. Article 5
THE MASTER MASON DEGREE—ITS FIRST APPEARANCE IN SCOTLAND. Article 7
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 11
MASONIC CHARITIES. Article 11
BRO. MANNINGHAM'S LETTER AND THE ROYAL ORDER OF SCOTLAND. Article 11
ANTIQUITY OF THE THIRD DEGREE. Article 11
BRO. MANNINGHAM AND THE HIGH DEGREES. Article 12
SECTARIAN MASONRY. Article 12
MASONIC PROGRESS. Article 12
MASONIC SCHOOLS. Article 13
MASONIC MEMS. Article 14
METROPOLITAN. Article 14
PROVINCIAL. Article 14
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The Editor ta not responsible for the opinions expressed & j / Correspondents , THE HIGH DEGEEES AND BBO . MANNINGHAM .

TO IHB EDITOK OF THE EKEEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIKROR . Dear Sir aud Brother , —The letter from Bro . Man-• ningham to Bro . Sauer which was transmitted to you by our learned Bro . Dr . Findel , and which you inserted in your last number , is , if genuine , a very important addition to the information we possess in

respect of certain portions of our Masonic Archeology . Though dated in 1757 , and hitherto , I believe unknown to Masonic students , I see no reason to doubt the genuineness of the letter , or why we should not accept the data it affords as regards several moot feints .

1 . If we assume that the letter really emanated from Bro . Manningham , on his authority , which is decisive , we are able to dispose of a recent theory , that the third degree is no earlier than the revival . Bro . Manningham , on the contrary , distinctly , as we ¦ see , carries back the existence of the three degrees to 'the middle of the seventeenth century , and that in

itself presupposes a far earlier existence , I hope some day to put forward the evidences I have been long collecting iu humble confirmation of Bro . Man-¦ ningham ' s decisive statement .

2 . Bro . Manningham has no doubt either apparently of the connexion between the operative and speculative Masons , and his whole argument goes to prove that the traditions , usages , degrees , landmarks of the speculative Order of 1757 were identical with those of the older operative assemblies .

3 . It may be said that Bro . Manningham also decides the controversy of the Eoyal Arch . We must , however , remember that that controversy is , after all , more a matter of words than of any very antagonistic views . It all depends upou what Bro . Manningham means by the Master ' s Degree . If he ,

as I believe , understood the old full third degree , with its first and second parts , then—cadit qucestio . Those who , like myself , uphold the reality of tbe Eoyal Arch , have never contended for more than this , that , though the Eoyal Arch Degree may have to-day a modern name and an elaborate ritualit isand ever

, , has been , substantiall y the same with the second part of the Master ' s Degree . Any other theory would land ns on a shore of inextricable confusion and -hopeless controversy , and would throw the greatest doubt on the whole arrangement of our Masonic

ceremonies . 4 . Bro . Manningham no doubt by his letter ignores the claims of many of the high grades to antiquity , as he seems to mark their early actual beginning in this country by his words of warning protest . I do not wish to-day to reopen the question of the high grades further than to say that Bro . Manningham ' s

declaration in 1757 is fully borne out by all the later evidences we have seen accumulating gradually the last quarter of a century . But , as I think the controversy is productive of very little good to Masonry , and does not tend to promote what we all ought to

Correspondence.

desire , fraternal feelings of toleration and good will among Masons , I leave it here . 5 . Presuming Bro . Manningham ' s letter to be genuine , I have sought to point out what I think we may fairly deduce from it , and what certainly is and has been for some time the conviction derived from careful study of , Tours fraternally , A MASONIC " STUDENT .

Masonic Charities.

MASONIC CHARITIES .

TO THE EDITOK OH THE FREEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIHKOB . Dear Sir and Brother , —May I respectfully ask a P . G . O ., East Lancashire , if I understand his words in your last number rightly ? Does he mean to inform us that the organization of East Lancashire , of which he speaks so highly , has for its end a selection of the

most deserving candidate from whatever province that candidate comes ? If so , perhaps he would kindly impart to us how the East Lancashire brethren arrive at the satisfactory certainty of the most deserving case absolutely in itself . TJp to the present time I had been under the impression that the East

Lancashire organization had succeeded in securing the election of E . Lancashire candidates and E . Lancashire candidates alone , but , I suppose , after the letter of P . G . 0 ., that I am mistaken . Your fraternally , A MEMBER of the C . C . W . Torkshire .

Bro. Manningham's Letter And The Royal Order Of Scotland.

BRO . MANNINGHAM'S LETTER AND THE ROYAL ORDER OF SCOTLAND .

TO THE EDITOE OE THE EREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIEEOE . Dear Sir and Brother , —I consider Bro . E . T . ' s communication relative to Bro . Manningham ' s letter ( which at present is considered of so much importance , aud which is accepted by one o ? the highest authorities in Masonry , Bro . J . Gr . Findel , as genuine )

to be to the point , and just what we want to have . Let us have a fair copy of the original , " without note or comment , " and then we can weig h well its statements . Eecords of the Eoyal Order of Scotlandstill in existence—date several years further back than A . D . 1757 , so its position is not effected by the letter . Tours fraternally , W . J . HUGHAN .

Antiquity Of The Third Degree.

ANTIQUITY OF THE THIRD DEGREE .

TO THE EDITOK OP THE EKEEMASONS * MAGAZINE AND MASONIC MIBBOB . ) Dear Sir and Brother , —Bro . Eobert Sanderson has brought forward evidence , not that the third degree did not exist before 1762 , but that a certain lodge or society of Masons in a remote part of Scotland was loosely conducted . Few others with such license

would undertake to prove that W . M . ' s were never installed under the Grand Lodge of England before 1862 , from the loose example of some lodges . Tours fraternally , E . Y .

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